January 2019 - Active Progressive WX Pattern Ahead

General Weather Discussions and Analysis
User avatar
Belmer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:29 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

I'd also like to take the time to note that be cautious on getting your information from other forums (i.e. Storm2k). While there are many great users and discussions that are discussed over there... many can be hype base with many members hugging every model run. During times like this we can give others a false sense of probability (or hope) when models sway back and forth. It is always wise to follow the upper-level and synoptic pattern to get a sense of what our weather could be rather than 300+ hour 2m-Temps or snowfall maps.

I think many on here would love nothing more than a SETX snowstorm but that is very rare down here and most winters are very unlikely to produce such an event. It has been mentioned by others several times that a pattern change was occurring after the New Year into February. Has that changed? Not at all. Back when the Sudden Stratospheric Warming (SSW) was beginning to show up in December it was mentioned that it would take 3 or so weeks before models starting picking up on it. What we didn't know was the trajectory of that cold air once it would begin to build in northern Canada.

Generally, models have been showing the severity of the cold to our north and east of us. The frustration I have been reading from members (mainly on S2k) is one will post a model indicating one thing when a couple model runs later it has something completely different. The discussion is great to have on a 'what if' basis, but can become very blurred for those that use the sites for planning purposes. With that said, the pattern does indicate - as Andrew stated - an average to below average for the remainder of the winter. But extreme cold was never really looking promising to begin with this far south, just potentially cold enough for some frozen precipitation with an active Subtropical Jet Stream that has been cranking in the Pacific since late October and early November that brought our first excitement of snow/sleet on November 13th.

As I mentioned before, until we get a solid, sustained snowpack to our north then it's going to be difficult to get very cold temperatures down this way. A few days ago I think models were indicating a stronger snowpack to our north that fell last weekend in parts of the Central Plains, but much of that snow has started to melt, thus temperatures have come in a bit warmer for this weekend. In addition, not much of the 'arctic' air is getting displaced from the source region into southern/southwestern Canada as first thought. Despite the recent model runs showing a much 'warmer' end to January and start of February than once thought, models are still behaving chaotic and are having a difficult time trying to piece together what is going on long-term. They are probably a bit too warm if I had to say.

I for one am ready for baseball to start... which means I am ready to welcome Spring with arms wide open. :)
Blake
Boomer Sooner
CrashTestDummy
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Pearland, Texas
Contact:

jasons wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:02 am <SNIP>
Happens almost every year. You just can’t trust the models beyond 5 days.

The NWS has now raised me overnight lows to 34/33 this weekend. Not even a freeze now. I’ll decide on Saturday if I need to cover anything up.
[/quote]

We're enjoying the 'warming trend' in the forecast, too. We'll probably cover the really sensitive stuff, depending on winds, this weekend, just to protect against frost, which can happen when the winds die. Otherwise, it's looking like we'll just need to bring the potted plants under the front porch for protection, and some radiational warmth.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

"You can learn a lot from a Dummy."
User avatar
wxman57
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:34 am
Location: Southwest Houston (Westbury)
Contact:

Models continue to trend less cold with Saturday's front. There really is no Arctic air at all in western Canada. In fact, the air up there is relatively mild for mid-January. Latest ECMWF doesn't even take north Houston (Bush) below freezing this Sunday/Monday. Can't rule out a light freeze, but this is no Arctic blast.

Image
mcheer23
Pro Met
Pro Met
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:15 am
Location: Missouri City/ Sugar Land
Contact:

FWIW...GFS does show a few flurries late Wednesday across Chambers, Jefferson and Orange counties.
mcheer23
Pro Met
Pro Met
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:15 am
Location: Missouri City/ Sugar Land
Contact:

FV3-GFS also has some snow across SE Texas (late Wednesday)
Last edited by mcheer23 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
redneckweather
Posts: 1023
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:29 pm
Location: Montgomery, Texas
Contact:

wxman57 wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:10 am Models continue to trend less cold with Saturday's front. There really is no Arctic air at all in western Canada. In fact, the air up there is relatively mild for mid-January. Latest ECMWF doesn't even take north Houston (Bush) below freezing this Sunday/Monday. Can't rule out a light freeze, but this is no Arctic blast.

Image
Yep
User avatar
jasons2k
Posts: 5401
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Imperial Oaks
Contact:

The run this afternoon is gonna be awesome!! No layers, just my T-shirt!
mcheer23
Pro Met
Pro Met
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:15 am
Location: Missouri City/ Sugar Land
Contact:

EURO has now jumped on the bandwagon for flurries...mainly like the GFS over Chambers, Jefferson and Orange counties
Cpv17
Posts: 5300
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:58 pm
Location: El Campo/Wharton
Contact:

mcheer23 wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:40 pm EURO has now jumped on the bandwagon for flurries...mainly like the GFS over Chambers, Jefferson and Orange counties
It’s interesting because a few days ago the CMC and GFS were advertising a huge winter storm over the area. The FV3 also had it back a few days ago as well..so now pretty much all the models have had it at some time or another.
User avatar
Belmer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:29 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

mcheer23 wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:42 am FV3-GFS also has some snow across SE Texas (late Wednesday)
Could be snow.. going to be a small window if anything makes it to the surface.

Red outline circle in the first image matches what the sounding shows for that same location/time.

12z GFSFV3 indicates that the snow may actually end up falling as sleet with slightly above freezing temperatures just below 850mb and then much warmer from 900mb to the surface (38F-40F). Also has to work through some dry air from 700mb - Sfc. It has been trending in the positive direction though (that being for a quick shot of frozen precip before much drier air moves in).
Attachments
GFS-FV3 12z.jpg
Sounding.png
Blake
Boomer Sooner
User avatar
CRASHWX
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:33 pm
Location: Hardin County / North of Beaumont
Contact:

37DD1A82-4160-4081-89DA-C81E779E67B5.png
:ugeek: CRASHWX :ugeek:
User avatar
wxman57
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:34 am
Location: Southwest Houston (Westbury)
Contact:

mcheer23 wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:40 pm EURO has now jumped on the bandwagon for flurries...mainly like the GFS over Chambers, Jefferson and Orange counties
I have no idea what you're looking at. I see nothing in the latest Euro or GFS as far as any frozen precip anywhere near SE TX.
User avatar
wxman57
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:34 am
Location: Southwest Houston (Westbury)
Contact:

Belmer wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:30 pm
mcheer23 wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:42 am FV3-GFS also has some snow across SE Texas (late Wednesday)
Could be snow.. going to be a small window if anything makes it to the surface.

Red outline circle in the first image matches what the sounding shows for that same location/time.

12z GFSFV3 indicates that the snow may actually end up falling as sleet with slightly above freezing temperatures just below 850mb and then much warmer from 900mb to the surface (38F-40F). Also has to work through some dry air from 700mb - Sfc. It has been trending in the positive direction though (that being for a quick shot of frozen precip before much drier air moves in).
That sounding indicates surface temps in the upper 40s and no precip. Only a very thin layer of clouds around 20,000 ft up. Remember, the precip depicted on those charts is for the PREVIOUS 6 hours. Therefore, the Skew-T soundings are not necessarily valid for when the precip is falling. You have to go back 6 hours on the sounding to more closely match the precip that is displayed for a certain time.
stormlover
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:21 am
Location: Lumberton TX
Contact:

also remember we are 6 days away still
User avatar
jasons2k
Posts: 5401
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Imperial Oaks
Contact:

Belmer wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:35 am I'd also like to take the time to note that be cautious on getting your information from other forums (i.e. Storm2k). While there are many great users and discussions that are discussed over there... many can be hype base with many members hugging every model run. During times like this we can give others a false sense of probability (or hope) when models sway back and forth. It is always wise to follow the upper-level and synoptic pattern to get a sense of what our weather could be rather than 300+ hour 2m-Temps or snowfall maps.

I think many on here would love nothing more than a SETX snowstorm but that is very rare down here and most winters are very unlikely to produce such an event. It has been mentioned by others several times that a pattern change was occurring after the New Year into February. Has that changed? Not at all. Back when the Sudden Stratospheric Warming (SSW) was beginning to show up in December it was mentioned that it would take 3 or so weeks before models starting picking up on it. What we didn't know was the trajectory of that cold air once it would begin to build in northern Canada.

Generally, models have been showing the severity of the cold to our north and east of us. The frustration I have been reading from members (mainly on S2k) is one will post a model indicating one thing when a couple model runs later it has something completely different. The discussion is great to have on a 'what if' basis, but can become very blurred for those that use the sites for planning purposes. With that said, the pattern does indicate - as Andrew stated - an average to below average for the remainder of the winter. But extreme cold was never really looking promising to begin with this far south, just potentially cold enough for some frozen precipitation with an active Subtropical Jet Stream that has been cranking in the Pacific since late October and early November that brought our first excitement of snow/sleet on November 13th.

As I mentioned before, until we get a solid, sustained snowpack to our north then it's going to be difficult to get very cold temperatures down this way. A few days ago I think models were indicating a stronger snowpack to our north that fell last weekend in parts of the Central Plains, but much of that snow has started to melt, thus temperatures have come in a bit warmer for this weekend. In addition, not much of the 'arctic' air is getting displaced from the source region into southern/southwestern Canada as first thought. Despite the recent model runs showing a much 'warmer' end to January and start of February than once thought, models are still behaving chaotic and are having a difficult time trying to piece together what is going on long-term. They are probably a bit too warm if I had to say.

I for one am ready for baseball to start... which means I am ready to welcome Spring with arms wide open. :)
Thank you for this post. It is an excellent reminder that we should always be cautious when looking at models and posts from social media.

I would kindly ask that you refrain from singling-out Storm2k as the “main” culprit for publicly posting long-range model runs and then ‘hyping’ these extreme outcomes one way or another.

I am extremely proud to call Storm2k the world’s largest online community of weather enthusiasts. We certainly have our own set of rules and guidelines that prohibit members from posting false or innacurate information. Even though we have a fantastic staff of Moderators, we can’t catch everything. Most items get flagged - and flagged quickly - for a Mod to address. We do our best.

But to be clear - we don’t allow false information to be posted and we address those cases very quickly. And to further clarify - posting a model run 10 days out showing snow down to Brownsville is not posting false information.

That said, Storm2k has always been a very open forum for amateurs and Pro Mets alike. It’s a place meant for people to learn. Unlike some boards, we really encourage questions from amateurs and for folks to speak-up if they are unsure about something.

Every board has its own unique audience and its place.

Regarding posts of model runs and the accompanying commentary to stir the pot and hype things up - I would have to say Twitter and Facebook are far more pervasive than Storm2k ever was, or any decent weather board for that matter.

I surmise a lot more people retweet Joe Bastardi than random posts on Storm2k.

In addition, although the post volume here on WxInfinity is a lot less than Storm2k, there is just as much ‘speculation’ in the threads on this very forum as there is over there.

So again, please don’t single out Storm2k as being the primary culprit for stirring-up us weather nerds about potential extreme weather. It’s just not true. Twitter alone does enough to compensate for Storm2k many times over and then some.

Thank you,
Jasons
Executive Director of Storm2k and humble contributor to WxInfinity.
User avatar
CRASHWX
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:33 pm
Location: Hardin County / North of Beaumont
Contact:

For the record Joe Bastardi and Weatherbell.com is in no way near a random post on social media. I will single myself out and say I am a huge supporter of Bastardi and I am sure there are those who disagree with his take on weather. Nevertheless his twitter post albeit on social media are more a form of promotion.
:ugeek: CRASHWX :ugeek:
User avatar
jasons2k
Posts: 5401
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Imperial Oaks
Contact:

Weatherbell.com is one thing.

His constant posts on Twitter (that get shared and resposted here and elsewhere) are another matter.

I’m simply saying that reaches a lot more folks on the internet than Storm2k, especially when he gets linked from Drudge and other media.

And to clarify further - he’s just one example of many. Storm2k is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.
User avatar
Belmer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:29 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

jasons wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:10 pm
Thank you for this post. It is an excellent reminder that we should always be cautious when looking at models and posts from social media.

I would kindly ask that you refrain from singling-out Storm2k as the “main” culprit for publicly posting long-range model runs and then ‘hyping’ these extreme outcomes one way or another.

I am extremely proud to call Storm2k the world’s largest online community of weather enthusiasts. We certainly have our own set of rules and guidelines that prohibit members from posting false or innacurate information. Even though we have a fantastic staff of Moderators, we can’t catch everything. Most items get flagged - and flagged quickly - for a Mod to address. We do our best.

But to be clear - we don’t allow false information to be posted and we address those cases very quickly. And to further clarify - posting a model run 10 days out showing snow down to Brownsville is not posting false information.

That said, Storm2k has always been a very open forum for amateurs and Pro Mets alike. It’s a place meant for people to learn. Unlike some boards, we really encourage questions from amateurs and for folks to speak-up if they are unsure about something.

Every board has its own unique audience and its place.

Regarding posts of model runs and the accompanying commentary to stir the pot and hype things up - I would have to say Twitter and Facebook are far more pervasive than Storm2k ever was, or any decent weather board for that matter.

I surmise a lot more people retweet Joe Bastardi than random posts on Storm2k.

In addition, although the post volume here on WxInfinity is a lot less than Storm2k, there is just as much ‘speculation’ in the threads on this very forum as there is over there.

So again, please don’t single out Storm2k as being the primary culprit for stirring-up us weather nerds about potential extreme weather. It’s just not true. Twitter alone does enough to compensate for Storm2k many times over and then some.

Thank you,
Jasons
Executive Director of Storm2k and humble contributor to WxInfinity.
Hi Jason,

Thanks for the feedback! I understand where you're coming from and Storm2k certainly isn't the only culprit when it comes to hyping information. Facebook (even though it is slowly dying) and especially Twitter are two huge problems as well when it comes to giving out overhyped or false situations/information. Unfortunately, those are less controllable as anyone can post anything and it can get several retweets and so on.
My post wasn't to necessarily single out Storm2k... rather than using that as an example due to how large the community is and how some members can often get carried away with how they interpret the weather. Storm2k is an excellent source for weather and back when I was in my early teens I would learn a lot from seeing what everyone posted. It is a great resource for those passionate and interested further in meteorology and I'm sure has persuaded weather enthusiasts to go to school to become a meteorologist.

My complaint stemmed from some members in the community getting upset or angry at other members (including pro mets) about how nothing is panning out as discussed and everything keeps getting pushed back. When the "Polar Vortex" was brought up in December, that equated to many believing we were going to have extreme cold and that "the pattern can't get any better than this" and "January is shaping up for cold and snow" when in reality none of that has yet to happened. It wasn't even looking promising back in December other than there was the possibility of below average temps due to the possible 3 separate pieces of the PV, the SSW and the potential of blocking setting up. With you helping run Storm2k, I'm sure you know what I mean about how often things can get misconstrued. It's easier to say it how it is: "Sudden Stratospheric Warming is currently underway over Russia/northern Asia, this could interact with the Polar Vortex and breaking off into several pieces circling around the pole which could play a part in our weather downstream in the months of January and February but will be a few weeks before models probably start latching on said events..." etc. I know that has been discussed, but it can be very small, fine print in the larger scheme of things when it gets bumped behind pages because many are posting 300+ hour GFS maps and some users don't go back to the page they left off because they simply don't have time to read 30+ post.
I know that sounds petty and I don't mean it to come across that way, but meteorologist can often (and quite often) get a bad rap because of what is being relayed to the public and on forums because nothing panned out as was discussed weeks prior.

I understand posting a 10+ day map that could show snow in Brownsville is not false information. It's a model run and we look for consistency in model runs and understand why the models show what they show -- making sure what is matching up at the surface makes sense aloft. It just becomes frustrating when one day everyone is excited and the next day everyone is upset and blaming pros for hyping or giving out too much false hope too early. While I never post on Storm2k, I look at it often through the week because there are still things I learn on there from some of the more experienced pro mets and amateurs.

As far as JB... I respect his thoughts and opinions when it comes to weather because he does know what he is talking about, but he lives in the NE and often construes his post to make it sound epic across the U.S. when it mainly applies to the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast.

Hopefully that helped clarify my meaning of my post. Forums aren't perfect and people aren't perfect. There will always be trolls and those that get giddy over 340 hour snowfall maps showing a foot of snow along the Gulf Coast. I get excited - more being a nerd and fantasizing over something that should just stay in my dreams when I sleep - but it is important we are giving out good, knowledgeable information and not steering away from the meteorological aspect of it all.
Blake
Boomer Sooner
User avatar
CRASHWX
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:33 pm
Location: Hardin County / North of Beaumont
Contact:

jasons wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:33 pm Weatherbell.com is one thing.

His constant posts on Twitter (that get shared and resposted here and elsewhere) are another matter.

I’m simply saying that reaches a lot more folks on the internet than Storm2k, especially when he gets linked from Drudge and other media.

And to clarify further - he’s just one example of many. Storm2k is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.
Gotcha! 😉
:ugeek: CRASHWX :ugeek:
User avatar
CRASHWX
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:33 pm
Location: Hardin County / North of Beaumont
Contact:

Belmer wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:35 pm
jasons wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:10 pm
Thank you for this post. It is an excellent reminder that we should always be cautious when looking at models and posts from social media.

I would kindly ask that you refrain from singling-out Storm2k as the “main” culprit for publicly posting long-range model runs and then ‘hyping’ these extreme outcomes one way or another.

I am extremely proud to call Storm2k the world’s largest online community of weather enthusiasts. We certainly have our own set of rules and guidelines that prohibit members from posting false or innacurate information. Even though we have a fantastic staff of Moderators, we can’t catch everything. Most items get flagged - and flagged quickly - for a Mod to address. We do our best.

But to be clear - we don’t allow false information to be posted and we address those cases very quickly. And to further clarify - posting a model run 10 days out showing snow down to Brownsville is not posting false information.

That said, Storm2k has always been a very open forum for amateurs and Pro Mets alike. It’s a place meant for people to learn. Unlike some boards, we really encourage questions from amateurs and for folks to speak-up if they are unsure about something.

Every board has its own unique audience and its place.

Regarding posts of model runs and the accompanying commentary to stir the pot and hype things up - I would have to say Twitter and Facebook are far more pervasive than Storm2k ever was, or any decent weather board for that matter.

I surmise a lot more people retweet Joe Bastardi than random posts on Storm2k.

In addition, although the post volume here on WxInfinity is a lot less than Storm2k, there is just as much ‘speculation’ in the threads on this very forum as there is over there.

So again, please don’t single out Storm2k as being the primary culprit for stirring-up us weather nerds about potential extreme weather. It’s just not true. Twitter alone does enough to compensate for Storm2k many times over and then some.

Thank you,
Jasons
Executive Director of Storm2k and humble contributor to WxInfinity.
Hi Jason,

Thanks for the feedback! I understand where you're coming from and Storm2k certainly isn't the only culprit when it comes to hyping information. Facebook (even though it is slowly dying) and especially Twitter are two huge problems as well when it comes to giving out overhyped or false situations/information. Unfortunately, those are less controllable as anyone can post anything and it can get several retweets and so on.
My post wasn't to necessarily single out Storm2k... rather than using that as an example due to how large the community is and how some members can often get carried away with how they interpret the weather. Storm2k is an excellent source for weather and back when I was in my early teens I would learn a lot from seeing what everyone posted. It is a great resource for those passionate and interested further in meteorology and I'm sure has persuaded weather enthusiasts to go to school to become a meteorologist.

My complaint stemmed from some members in the community getting upset or angry at other members (including pro mets) about how nothing is panning out as discussed and everything keeps getting pushed back. When the "Polar Vortex" was brought up in December, that equated to many believing we were going to have extreme cold and that "the pattern can't get any better than this" and "January is shaping up for cold and snow" when in reality none of that has yet to happened. It wasn't even looking promising back in December other than there was the possibility of below average temps due to the possible 3 separate pieces of the PV, the SSW and the potential of blocking setting up. With you helping run Storm2k, I'm sure you know what I mean about how often things can get misconstrued. It's easier to say it how it is: "Sudden Stratospheric Warming is currently underway over Russia/northern Asia, this could interact with the Polar Vortex and breaking off into several pieces circling around the pole which could play a part in our weather downstream in the months of January and February but will be a few weeks before models probably start latching on said events..." etc. I know that has been discussed, but it can be very small, fine print in the larger scheme of things when it gets bumped behind pages because many are posting 300+ hour GFS maps and some users don't go back to the page they left off because they simply don't have time to read 30+ post.
I know that sounds petty and I don't mean it to come across that way, but meteorologist can often (and quite often) get a bad rap because of what is being relayed to the public and on forums because nothing panned out as was discussed weeks prior.

I understand posting a 10+ day map that could show snow in Brownsville is not false information. It's a model run and we look for consistency in model runs and understand why the models show what they show -- making sure what is matching up at the surface makes sense aloft. It just becomes frustrating when one day everyone is excited and the next day everyone is upset and blaming pros for hyping or giving out too much false hope too early. While I never post on Storm2k, I look at it often through the week because there are still things I learn on there from some of the more experienced pro mets and amateurs.

As far as JB... I respect his thoughts and opinions when it comes to weather because he does know what he is talking about, but he lives in the NE and often construes his post to make it sound epic across the U.S. when it mainly applies to the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast.

Hopefully that helped clarify my meaning of my post. Forums aren't perfect and people aren't perfect. There will always be trolls and those that get giddy over 340 hour snowfall maps showing a foot of snow along the Gulf Coast. I get excited - more being a nerd and fantasizing over something that should just stay in my dreams when I sleep - but it is important we are giving out good, knowledgeable information and not steering away from the meteorological aspect of it all.
Belmer...I have noticed that about JB and you are correct.
:ugeek: CRASHWX :ugeek:
Post Reply
  • Information